Welcome Guest Login or Signup
LIVE CHAT | IM LIST | BOOKMARK US | HELP GUIDE | LANGUAGE:


Go Back   Forum Diskusi Kristen Internasional > AP - DISKUSI KRISTEN PRAKTIS > Apresiasi Kristen > Buku Kristen
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 13th February 2007
AP - Junior Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 7
limpingen is an unknown quantity at this pointlimpingen is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to limpingen Send a message via Yahoo to limpingen Send a message via Skype™ to limpingen
Default Mengkritisi buku Purpose Driven Life

Shalom saudari-saudari di dalam Kristus....

Sudahkah anda membaca buku purpose driven life ?
Buku ini sudah bestseller dan banyak yang membelinya

Ada kritisi mengenai buku ini di link
[url]http://limpingen.blogspot.com/2007/01/mengkritisi-buku-purpose-driven-life.html[/url]

Bagaimana tanggapan saudara-i mengenai kritisi ini ?
Tanggapan positif dan negatif dan objektif

Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 13th February 2007
andreyps_AP's Avatar
Father & Son...
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 1,038
andreyps_AP is just really niceandreyps_AP is just really niceandreyps_AP is just really niceandreyps_AP is just really nice
Default

PERTAMAAAAX !!!!

Menuju ke TKP dulu Bos.. !
Mo' liat-liat dulu..
__________________
YOU ARE THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE
WE LIVE BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT FOR
YOU
WE'RE LIVING ALL FOR YOU


~hillsong - one way~
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 13th February 2007
Rose's Avatar
AP - Community Leader
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Japan
Posts: 9,720
Rose is a glorious beacon of lightRose is a glorious beacon of lightRose is a glorious beacon of lightRose is a glorious beacon of lightRose is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via Yahoo to Rose Send a message via Skype™ to Rose
Default

kadank gw juga jd bingung, udah lama seh dengar berita ttg kontroversi dan komentar2 ttg buku PDL itu, yeah... gw gak mau ambil pusing aza, toh itu cuman sekedar hasil karya manusia, bukan Tuhan sendiri yg berbicara, jd sulit utk memberikan tanggapan yg jelas..bnyk org yg membaca buku tsb, hm..hm..binun aza gak tau mo ksh komentar apa gitu..
__________________
I'm the ceramic made by God's hand as well as using already by God
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 13th February 2007
mochabookworm's Avatar
***
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,205
mochabookworm is a jewel in the roughmochabookworm is a jewel in the roughmochabookworm is a jewel in the roughmochabookworm is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via Yahoo to mochabookworm
Default

**NOTE**

Ini dipindahkan ke bagian buku kristen aja yaa .
__________________
I’ve noticed this over my journey, those who are most settled in God’s truth feel no compulsion to conform others to it. They know truth has a power all its own and that a generosity of spirit will open people to it faster than bashing them with their opinion ever will.
WAYNE JACOBSEN
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 13th February 2007
Pau's Avatar
Pau Pau is offline
hayo siapa naksir ni....
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 895
Pau is an unknown quantity at this pointPau is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Pau Send a message via Yahoo to Pau
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by limpingen
Shalom saudari-saudari di dalam Kristus....

Sudahkah anda membaca buku purpose driven life ?
Buku ini sudah bestseller dan banyak yang membelinya

Ada kritisi mengenai buku ini di link
[url]http://limpingen.blogspot.com/2007/01/mengkritisi-buku-purpose-driven-life.html[/url]

Bagaimana tanggapan saudara-i mengenai kritisi ini ?
Tanggapan positif dan negatif dan objektif

Jeff
pantesan gua baca purpose driven selalu ga lebih dari bab I

pertama kali baca... buku nya di pinjem temen gua.
beli lagi 2 buku.... 1 nya di kasih pinjem temen dan 1 lagi ilank ntah berantah
sekarang gua ada 1 lagi dan masih hasil dari di pinjamin temen tapi tetep ga di baca-baca
tau deh bawaan nya malez baca tuh buku padahal gua uda sering baca buku dan lebih baca buku yang lebih tebel dan yang bahasa ribet kyk tulisan om Ravi zacharia
hehe... ternyata Tuhan toh yang kagak mau gua baca
tq limpengan
__________________
Bukan lah Paku yang Menahan Yesus di Salib
Tapi kasih lah yang menahan Yesus di salib
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2007
kepikbiru's Avatar
AP - Community Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 6,758
kepikbiru is a name known to allkepikbiru is a name known to allkepikbiru is a name known to allkepikbiru is a name known to allkepikbiru is a name known to allkepikbiru is a name known to all
Send a message via Yahoo to kepikbiru
Default

Mengkritisi artikel yang mengkritisi buku Purpose Driven Life.
Quote:
Bahkan Bob DeWaay mengatakan bahwa dia menebak 50% dari kutipan Alkitab di dalam PDL adalah menyeleweng secara total[1].
gua juga bisa nebak 75% kutipan PDL menyeleweng secara total. Tapi ada bedanya menebak dan memberikan substansi. Kalo tebakan doang sih, I'll humour you

Quote:
Mengapa mengutip ayat tidak lengkap ? Bukankah Amsal itu harus dikutip dengan lengkap satu ayatnya supaya pengertian pembaca lebih utuh?
Karena "ayat" itu adalah ciptaan baru. Jaman dulu Alkitab tidak ditulis dengan "pasal" dan "ayat". Even orang yang ngutip satu "ayat" atau satu "pasal" juga bisa ngawur kok. Substansi protesnya ini kurang bo.

Quote:
Yang harus lebih kita kritisi adalah premis dasar dari buku PDL dimana “diperlukan waktu 40 hari untuk menemukan arti hidup” adalah interpretasi yang salah dari Alkitab. Warren menekankan bahwa strategi 40 hari adalah yang terbaik dan cara Alkitabiah untuk menanamkan perubahan kerohanian yang signifikan.
Ini cuma oversimplification of the matter. PDL itu cuma a starter doang sama kayak Alpha class. Selanjutnya of course orang diminta untuk terus mengembangkan apa yang dia pelajari. Kalo kita protes PDL cuma 40 hari, should we protest kalo Alpha Course itu terlalu mendasar? 4 Hukum Rohani cuma 4? These materials are not meant to be "be all end all", tapi a starter terutama untuk casual Christians and non Christians.

Quote:
Dengan mengklaim ini bahwa 40 hari adalah apa yang Allah inginkan dalam transformasi rohani, Warren dibingungkan antara deksripsi dengan perintah. Tidak pernah ada orang percaya yang diperintahkan untuk mengikuti program 40 hari. Dan juga penafsiran seperti ini adalah alegoris yang merupakan metode penafsiran yang tidak sah. Kemudian lebih jelas bahwa angka 40 hari kelihatan mempunyai beberapa signifikansi di dalam Alkitab tetapi tidak pernah dipresentasikan sebagai model yang harus kita ikuti.
Waduh, di Alkitab juga gak ada kata "Alpha Course" atau "Four Spiritual Laws" atau program2 penginjilan yg lain. Tapi bukan berarti Four Spiritual Laws itu ngawur.

Quote:
Apakah benar buku ini bukan mengenai “you” tetapi mengenai Allah? Tetapi buku ini secara keseluruhan, menyiratkan bahwa itu semua mengenai “kamu” dan kalau kita membaca buku ini serasa membaca buku literatur pengembangan atau menolong diri (self-help)[10].
Kalo yg gua baca sih, bukunya is not about "changing God to suit our needs" tapi "changing ourself to suit His needs". Berhubung yang diminta berubah itu kita, jelas "you"nya banyak.

Quote:
Doktrin Manusia dan Dosa
Tesis dari buku PDL ada di halaman 136,“I hope you will read that book too, because it will help you to understand how God designed this church, specially to help you fulfill the five purposes He has for your life. He created the church to meet your five deepest needs: a purpose to live for, peope to live with, principles to live by, a profesion to live out, and power to live on”[17]
Dari lima kebutuhan yang ditulis di atas, Warren salah mengenai kebutuhan manusia yang terdalam. Dengan otoritas dari Alkitab, kebutuhan yang pertama dan terutama bagi manusia adalah benar secara sempurna di hadapan Allah yang kudus.
itu purpose dari gereja, bukan dan kalo dibaca dari bukunya jelas banget yg dimaksud itu ini:
We were planned for God’s pleasure, so your first purpose is to offer real worship. We were formed for God’s family, so your second purpose is to enjoy real fellowship. We were created to become like Christ, so your third purpose is to learn real discipleship. We were shaped for serving God, so your fourth purpose is to practice real ministry. We were made for a mission, so your fifth purpose is to live out real evangelism.

Dan dijelasin juga disana tentang pentingnya Yesus Kristus dalam hidup Kekristenan kita.
Dah ah yg lain gua rada males bahasnya. Buat gua sih PDL itu ngga lebih ngga kurang sama seperti "Alpha Course", "Four Spiritual Laws". It's just a tool untuk Christianity package themselves in a compact and rational way to non believers, casual believers. Ibaratnya kalo di dunia film, trailernya deh, extranya. Supaya orang mau dateng and taste some more.
Gua belom pernah denger orang complain kenapa Four Spiritual Laws ([url]www.greatcom.org/laws/indonesian[/url]) cuma ada 4, kenapa ngga 5,6,7 ?
Well I don't care kalo besok pagi ada yg mau bikin "The Six score sixty six (666) Steps of Knowing Jesus Christ". If it gets people to be interested in knowing more about Jesus, I fully support it.

To understand the purpose of the book, you have to understand juga the author's mindset:
Quote:
"WARREN: Well, I hope not. I tell you this. Marketing is when you create a message in order to push a product, but what I'm doing is the exact opposite. I'm just looking for products to share a message, because I believe that the message is life-changing -- and by the way, I didn't come up with that distinction, that was said about me in the New York Times, that I'm creating ways to simply share the message, that God loves you, he has a plan and purpose for your life, Jesus Christ died for you, there is a reason for the things that happen in your life. And even the bad things, God can bring good out of bad.

That's what Easter's all about, and -- the message isn't really anything new, Larry. It's been taught for 2,000 years in churches. If somebody wants to hear it, they don't have to read my book, just go to church on Easter and hear it." -Rick Warren on Larry king Live interview.

WARREN: That's OK. First place, I don't think that my book has the power to change anybody. The book does happen to have over 1,500 Bible verses in it that I quote, and I think that that has the power to change lives, and I think that's why the book is being used to change a lot of lives. Because I've just quoted the Bible. And honestly, there's nothing in the book that hasn't been said in historic Christian faith for 2,000 years. I just happened to interpret it in a simple way for the 21st century.
-Rick Warren on Larry king Live interview.
So in the end, kalo kita criticize (the fallible and gullible) PDL just like we criticize the Bible, yah jelas banyak bolong2nya. Kalo kita criticize PDL berdasarkan anggapan kalau PDL bakalan jadi jawaban dari semua masalah, jelas PDL banyak bolongnya. But if we take it just as it is " a simple interpretation", "a starter" it's a very very good tools.
Not for you, the wise and learned and scholarly Christians, tapi buat the casual Christians, the unbelievers.
I evangelize using PDL and Four Spiritual Laws (not Alpha Course, soalnya ngga cocok aja sama budaya Indo). I think it's a nice compact way to introduce who Jesus is in our life. It is very easy for me to get PDL, kasih ke non Christian and bilang "eh baca dulu, nanti get back to me and we'll talk about it". Kalo gua bawa the Big Book of International Standard Biblical Encyclopedia, orang udah kabur dulu kali.

Kalo orang sering menginjil, sering memberitakan Yesus sama orang2 yg membutuhkan pasti bisa appreciate PDL, 4 Spiritual Laws, Alpha Course dll. Tapi kalo Kekristenan kita hanya berkutat di intelektualisme dan ensiklopedia, jelas alat2 seperti ini kurang ada gunanya malahan terlalu sederhana dan sempit.
__________________
Pardoned not Paroled


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2007
harvest's Avatar
AP - Community Leader
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 3,425
harvest is a glorious beacon of lightharvest is a glorious beacon of lightharvest is a glorious beacon of lightharvest is a glorious beacon of lightharvest is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pau
pantesan gua baca purpose driven selalu ga lebih dari bab I

pertama kali baca... buku nya di pinjem temen gua.
beli lagi 2 buku.... 1 nya di kasih pinjem temen dan 1 lagi ilank ntah berantah
sekarang gua ada 1 lagi dan masih hasil dari di pinjamin temen tapi tetep ga di baca-baca
tau deh bawaan nya malez baca tuh buku padahal gua uda sering baca buku dan lebih baca buku yang lebih tebel dan yang bahasa ribet kyk tulisan om Ravi zacharia
hehe... ternyata Tuhan toh yang kagak mau gua baca
tq limpengan
PDL adalah buku yg mengukir sejarah sebagai buku yang paling laku,paling bisa diterima masyarakat dr berbagai lapisan dan yg mengubah kehidupan byk org in a positive way

Mungkin sebaiknya dibaca dulu seluruh isi bukunya then u can comment

Gue aja waktu baca buku ini ..kerja 14 jam/hari,di Chicago yg dinginnya minta ampun,dan ditengah2 kesibukan dan alam yg tdk bersahabat tsb I love reading this book mau dirumah,tempat kerjaan,halte bus,coffee shop name it.. lol..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2007
SarapanPagi's Avatar
movie lover
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,627
SarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to behold
Default

PDL dikritisi secara sola scriptura, kenapa? karna bukan Tong yang ngomong.....
__________________
I put no stock in religion. By the word "religion" I've seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'the will of God'.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2007
tnt-here's Avatar
peZIaRah ImAn
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,605
tnt-here will become famous soon enoughtnt-here will become famous soon enoughtnt-here will become famous soon enough
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by SarapanPagi
PDL dikritisi secara sola scriptura, kenapa? karna bukan Tong yang ngomong.....
Ada apakah dengan Mr Tong?
sepertinya keramat bgt hehehe

Gw belum pernah baca PDL dengan begitu kritis.. soalnya pernah gw pake untuk bahan pengajaran Alkitab n diskusi brg temen2..
Thanx buat infonya...
Hal ini membuat gw untuk tidak langsung percaya dengan buku yg gw baca meskipun itu ditulis oleh orang Kristen juga (mungkin juga alkitab hehehe)
__________________
"Bukan berlimpahnya pengetahuan,
melainkan merasakan dan mencecap dalam-dalam kebenaran,
itulah yang memperkenyang dan memuaskan jiwa"

(Catatan Pendahuluan L.R. 2)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2007
Sahi's Avatar
AP - Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 274
Sahi is an unknown quantity at this pointSahi is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Buku bagus.
Step2nya sesuai dengan pengalaman, sayangnya baca sesudah hampir melalui semua itu. Kalau baca sebelumnya pasti sangat memberkati dan dapat menghindari hal2 yang ga perlu.

amsal 13:14
Ajaran orang bijak adalah sumber kehidupan, sehingga orang terhindar dari jerat-jerat maut
__________________
Penyembah Sang Raja
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 15th February 2007
H S's Avatar
H S H S is offline
???
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 2,902
H S is a jewel in the roughH S is a jewel in the roughH S is a jewel in the roughH S is a jewel in the rough
Default

Biasa kalo laris selalu dikritisi... Tanya kenapa ?

@ Sarapan pagi
penggunaan kata Tong, tidak mengarah kepada individu tertentukan ? Kalo bukan syukur, kalo Iya, kayanya kurang bijaksana.
__________________
Mari belajar dan Bertumbuh bersama

Everyone thinks forgiveness is a lovely idea until he has something to forgive.”
C. S. Lewis
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 15th February 2007
eve's Avatar
eve eve is offline
Planet Quest
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 5,424
eve is a glorious beacon of lighteve is a glorious beacon of lighteve is a glorious beacon of lighteve is a glorious beacon of lighteve is a glorious beacon of light
Default

namanya juga buku... pasti tiap org punya interpretasi berbeda.
__________________
in every second of life there is always a miracle
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 15th February 2007
SarapanPagi's Avatar
movie lover
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,627
SarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to beholdSarapanPagi is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by H S
Biasa kalo laris selalu dikritisi... Tanya kenapa ?

@ Sarapan pagi
penggunaan kata Tong, tidak mengarah kepada individu tertentukan ? Kalo bukan syukur, kalo Iya, kayanya kurang bijaksana.
mengkritisi Rick Warren apa bukan ke individu?

Pernah dengar Pak Tong kotbah? berapa banyak orang dikritisi olehnya?
__________________
I put no stock in religion. By the word "religion" I've seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'the will of God'.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 15th February 2007
cid's Avatar
cid cid is offline
Jesus Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 335
cid is an unknown quantity at this pointcid is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to cid Send a message via Yahoo to cid
Default

Mau nambahin aja. Setuju sama El Shaddai. PDL just a tool for learning what Christianity what's is all about, a starter. But, it's not the answer of all things. The real thing is the Bible, that's what you really read and learn from.
__________________
"Perhaps today!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March 2007
4rn0ld's Avatar
AP - Senior Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 391
4rn0ld will become famous soon enough4rn0ld will become famous soon enough
Default

bagus kok bukunya ini lg baca... dan alkitabiah juga yah...
tp sekali lg yang ultimately plg bener yah bible itu sendiri.....
jd baca bible plg utama krn itu hukum firman yang terutama dan paling berkuasa
dan setelah itu buku2 lain yang sesuai bible, contohe pdl
__________________
I've no longer live but Lord Jesus lives in me
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 7th March 2007
AP - Regular Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 99
Av_IMPACT is an unknown quantity at this pointAv_IMPACT is an unknown quantity at this point
Default .......

yup, ditambah rhema yang qta dapat dalam Alkitab yang bisa diterapkan pada kehidupan qta sehari2...
__________________
Be a Christian, not just a religion or just in church but we must tell the world with giving an POSITIF IMPACT to people surround us...

add me at FS [email]av_cooly@yahoo.com[/email]
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 7th March 2007
LieL's Avatar
........
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Iceland
Posts: 2,827
LieL is a splendid one to beholdLieL is a splendid one to beholdLieL is a splendid one to beholdLieL is a splendid one to beholdLieL is a splendid one to beholdLieL is a splendid one to beholdLieL is a splendid one to behold
Default

waw.. waw.. salute buat bro kepik
bener2 jawaban yg memuaskan hehehe..

menurut gua juga sih.. lebih baik baca dulu..soalnya gua uda baca n bener2 inspiring boo.. i love this book
__________________
Transformation doesn't happen unless your willing; it's your choice
(Oprah Winfrey)
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 7th March 2007
arranger's Avatar
°o.HILL§OÑG¤FREÃK.o°
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indonesia
Age: 24
Posts: 2,039
arranger is on a distinguished roadarranger is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to arranger
Default

covernya kurang menarik.. itu kritis saya.. ekekekekekkkk
__________________
hillsong.community.indonesia

PM me for this information of community

komunitas hillsong indonesia-share all bout hillsong n their music


www.ccmindonesia.co.cc
--community chirstian contemporary music indonesia --
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10th March 2007
tabby's Avatar
AP - Aspiring Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 544
tabby is an unknown quantity at this pointtabby is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

judulnya juga kurang menarik hehe
__________________
unknown rebel
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2007
JED-ReVoLuTiA's Avatar
The Mind Blower
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Slovak Republic
Age: 26
Posts: 3,460
JED-ReVoLuTiA has much to be proud ofJED-ReVoLuTiA has much to be proud ofJED-ReVoLuTiA has much to be proud ofJED-ReVoLuTiA has much to be proud ofJED-ReVoLuTiA has much to be proud ofJED-ReVoLuTiA has much to be proud ofJED-ReVoLuTiA has much to be proud of
Send a message via MSN to JED-ReVoLuTiA Send a message via Yahoo to JED-ReVoLuTiA